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Post by Vish on Jun 26, 2004 14:40:04 GMT 10
firstly regarding midfielders, i've given it a lot of thought and its strikes me as its is very difficult to split players into distinct groups. i mean most would consider zidane, totti and scholes to be AMC but totti tends to play slightly higher up the field than zidane or scholes who play in slightly ahead of say the central midfield. Zidane is a floater. He'll be at CB postion at one time then 30 secons later he is doing a cross. and then you have the likes of ballack and lampard who play slightly behind them, followed by ppl like gerrard and seedorf and then vieria, davids and keane and then makalele, baraja, butt... anyway my point is that there really are no distinct zones. afterall you wouldn't say that lampard and ballack are similar players to say gerrard even though by your reckoning both would be CM. but anyway i decided to split them up anyway into 5 groups(there really shoudl be 6 with the mc group split up but i couldn't do it properly) and players in no particular order who i think would fit into that group playmaker: totti, ronaldihno, aimar, rosicky, valeron, deco amc:scholes, zidane, nedved, veron mc:ballack, emre, lampard, stanjkovic,gerrard, xabi alonso, pirlo, seedorf dmc:vieria, keane, davids, emerson, c. zanetti, anchor: makalele, butt, baraja, gatusso, hamann, jeremies what do you think? Agree. But what is the difference b/ween a Playmaker and an AMC? rooney would develop well at man u. definately fergie would control his temper. still wherever he goes, he will become better. Man U would be the best for him by far. He could easily become the next Gazza if Fergi doesnt manage him. to compare him to pele is drastic to say the least, but the english definately are number one at raising expectations. i still think rooney will play in scholes roles. maybe a bit more totti style but still not as an out and out forward. he can never be a vieri or RvN or ronaldo cause he doesn't have the size. after the portugal v england game maybe i'll see the error of my ways, but we'll wait till then. Ankle injury. I still believe that he can play the CF role as good as anybody with his pace, skill, smarts and strength. also i thikn missing out on robben was a massive loss. till i saw him play for holland against the czech's and the flashes i caught of the latvia match when i was flicking channels tells me he will be brilliant. Do you think he will adapt to England well? regarding the transfer speculation, mido would be good, so too would milner. the loss of robert woudl be too much though. its the silly season in england. i think it was cryuff who once said those who can play foot ball well as kids will become professionals. those who can't play as all become journalists. so i usually take the rumours with a pinch of salt, but if soccernet says so, then be a bit more wary. they don't make up stuff very often Mido deal is off. His manager said that we are skint! Milner still may come though. I hope we get Trabelsi. Him, Koncheski, and the out of favour Gallas and Parker would be my buys. Gudjohnson, Forsell and Kezman: Of which one of them would be a striker purchase. |
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jun 26, 2004 18:54:42 GMT 10
the difference between playmaker(really should have called it 'in the hole' position or something like that) and amc is that the amc do track back to defend, like zidane and scholes, but the playmaker's don't. you don't see totti or aimar running back to help the def do you. they tend to stay higher up the field and hence also tend to score more goals. zidane and scholes might get 10-15 goals a season. totti regularly gets 20. i wouldn't say that goals are the only criteria, but rather their style of play. totti and ronaldinho play vastly differently to say scholes or zidane. and i thknk you would agree that zidane or scholes coudl literally play with anyone else as theri partner in central midfield, but someone like totti or ronaldinho really do require a defensive midfielder to sheild the defense.
apparently the book makers have stopped taking bets on whether or not rooney will play for man u. overwhelming amounts of bets said that he would. i guess we have more to offer to everton. not just money but possibly butt as well as either solskjaer, smith or forlan or maybe 2 of the 3. moyes did want butt and smith, and i'm sure he would like solskjaer as well.
i like the way robben playes. and he's only 20. he'll develop. atm i would prefer if we signed figo, as that would let ronaldo come on for either giggs or figo in every match for the last half hour or so. since figo and giggs have 2 years left in them, by then hopefully someone suitable will come along. vicente and joaquin are good, but atm i like wingers who can swap positions at will like ronaldo and figo can. giggs or course can play pretty much wherever he wants, afterall he did score twice against liverpool when he played as a right winger.
i have heard that chelsea are giving duff and parker and money for gerrard. and that gerrard will be the third most expensie transfer of all time.
i also heard that hugo viana and miguel( the portugese right back who is keeping out paolo ferriera) are going to swap clubs.
charlton apparently have bid for kezman.
i guess we'll have to wait and see.
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Post by Vish on Jun 27, 2004 0:51:10 GMT 10
the difference between playmaker(really should have called it 'in the hole' position or something like that) and amc is that the amc do track back to defend, like zidane and scholes, but the playmaker's don't. you don't see totti or aimar running back to help the def do you. they tend to stay higher up the field and hence also tend to score more goals. zidane and scholes might get 10-15 goals a season. totti regularly gets 20. i wouldn't say that goals are the only criteria, but rather their style of play. totti and ronaldinho play vastly differently to say scholes or zidane. and i thknk you would agree that zidane or scholes coudl literally play with anyone else as theri partner in central midfield, but someone like totti or ronaldinho really do require a defensive midfielder to sheild the defense. I get ya dude. I was going to mention the exact same thing about ZZ and Scholes defending and Totti staying in the forward half in the previous thread. apparently the book makers have stopped taking bets on whether or not rooney will play for man u. overwhelming amounts of bets said that he would. i guess we have more to offer to everton. not just money but possibly butt as well as either solskjaer, smith or forlan or maybe 2 of the 3. moyes did want butt and smith, and i'm sure he would like solskjaer as well. Good deal. I'm sure a debt wiping transfer fee plus Solskjaer or Butt would tempt them. Although Smith or Saha would be the ones they would wan't i like the way robben playes. and he's only 20. he'll develop. According to PSV fans Rommedahl who played on RW had the pace which created space and Robben was the key playmaker for them in the Dutch league. He has the pace to get away with the slight frame but he would be better in Spain/Italy personally. But that doesn't mean he'll be shit in the EPL by any means! atm i would prefer if we signed figo, as that would let ronaldo come on for either giggs or figo in every match for the last half hour or so. since figo and giggs have 2 years left in them, by then hopefully someone suitable will come along. vicente and joaquin are good, but atm i like wingers who can swap positions at will like ronaldo and figo can. giggs or course can play pretty much wherever he wants, afterall he did score twice against liverpool when he played as a right winger. Freak. Vand der Vaarts your man. You should go for Van der Meyde as well. i have heard that chelsea are giving duff and parker and money for gerrard. and that gerrard will be the third most expensie transfer of all time. Farrk! Thats definatley going to soften the blow. I so wan't Parker at Newcastle. Him and Jenas @ CM would last for 7 years. i also heard that hugo viana and miguel( the portugese right back who is keeping out paolo ferriera) are going to swap clubs. Nah, not going to happen. They wan't too much for him. We put in 4 mill + Viana but they wan't more. Doesn't bother me. Not worth that much. Can't cross or defend. Deco played RB better then he did after was subbed. 5 mill for Trabelsi is on the table according to reports with Hatem [understandibly] waiting to see if a bigger club will come in for him. charlton apparently have bid for kezman. .........and have agreed in the fee for Rommedahl with PSV. i guess we'll have to wait and see. Like you said, after Euro the shit will hit the fan. |
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Post by Vish on Jun 28, 2004 2:21:09 GMT 10
Owen want's to leave Liverpool.
My I ask, who the fuck to?
Would any major club touch him?
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jun 29, 2004 20:08:08 GMT 10
well there is only one player in the england team that any big club would buy and that's rooney. campbell, scholes, lampard and gerrard are good, but they are not leaving atm, though i think gerrard might leave next season if liverpool don't do well. i have never liked owen, but he is a good player. there is a feeling that he has stagnated at liverpool, and that a move abroad might do him some good. i don't know if that's true, but if i were benetiz i would play cisse and baros up front and not owen.
latest speculation at man u is that RvN will be sold to real and that rooney will be bought with that money. i don't like that. i want RvN to stay, and he wants to stay too. presonally i think the rumour is rubbish, but it gets unnerving since i've either read it or heard it on the tv in every soccer related paper/website/tv show.
but yeah the shit is going to hit the fan as you said. after the mangerial merry-go-round now its time for the players to move.
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Post by Vish on Jun 29, 2004 22:07:33 GMT 10
well there is only one player in the england team that any big club would buy and that's rooney. campbell, scholes, lampard and gerrard are good, but they are not leaving atm, I would mention Woodgate but he is always injured! though i think gerrard might leave next season if liverpool don't do well. That gentlemens agrreement he made with Parry will probably carry through to this season IMO. i have never liked owen, but he is a good player. there is a feeling that he has stagnated at liverpool, and that a move abroad might do him some good. Yep. A "Beckham" if you were to pigeon-hole him. Very good, but not World-Class. A move abroad IMO may more likely expose his lack of technical ability with the ball and will not suit him in the main leagues like Italy/Spain. He can get away with a poor technique in the EPL, but in the others he will not be as effective imo. i don't know if that's true, but if i were benetiz i would play cisse and baros up front and not owen. I have always rated Baros as you and Rahool can testify to but he will only be fully effective @ Liverpool IMO, if Liverpool play a passing game under Benitez. If Gerrard stays, he will do well. What is your opinion of Cisse? Seems like he has everything. latest speculation at man u is that RvN will be sold to real and that rooney will be bought with that money. i don't like that. i want RvN to stay, and he wants to stay too. presonally i think the rumour is rubbish, but it gets unnerving since i've either read it or heard it on the tv in every soccer related paper/website/tv show. It certinly is a good peice of business I'll tell you that. If it appears in the broad-sheets/BBC/Soccernet I would start believing it, but for now I am sceptical. It does seem that that is the only way that Rooney will get to Man U and with Gerrard looking that he will stay, Chelsea will probably look to Rooney. but yeah the shit is going to hit the fan as you said. after the mangerial merry-go-round now its time for the players to move. Pity Newcastle didn't feature in the managerial merry-go-round! Nick Butt to Newcastle is the news. Still not to keen on him personally. |
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Post by Vish on Jul 1, 2004 20:56:43 GMT 10
Newcastle:
IN: Milner[Leeds], Butt[Man U]
OUT: 6-7million pounds of Toon money.
What is your opnion Gomesh?
[Moreso of Milner]
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jul 4, 2004 0:54:28 GMT 10
well milner has moved to newcatle, for 5 million pounds. i think he's a good talent. he played well for leeds on the left wing lat season even though he is right footed. fergie was supposedly interested in him after losing out of robben. i think he will play well, but my worry is newcastle have too many midfielders who require first team action. robert, dyer, bowyer, speed, JJ, viana, ambrose and milner. mix of youth and experience is good, but i'm sure some of the players will be frustrated. if butt joins it'll get even harder. i know man u have lots of midfielders as well, but lets face it, scholes, giggs and keane are guarenteed starting positions if fit and ready, so everyone else who joined knows that they were fighting for two spots, and i think ronaldo deserves to play at right wing most of the time and if not him then solskjaer, so fletcher, kleberson, miller, djemba, p. neville, butt are all really fighting for the spot to partner keane, and they all know this. at newcaslte its less clear, so i guess player unrest is what i'm worried about. stil its a taleneted midifled on paper.
cisse is also very good. i've only caugth glimpses of him playing, but by all accounts he's very talented. top scorer in the french league for the past 3 years and remember last season elber, morientes and drogba were playing for lyon, monaco and marseille respectively and they have far superior teams to auxerre which is basically built around the defensive solidarity of mexes and boumsong and the creativity of kapo and cisse. so he has good credentials but so did veron. we'll wait and see.
i think rooney prefers man u to chelsea. he doesn't want to leave the north-west of england and go to london, and at man u there is a system for young players to develop. presonally i think lots of top players are put off by chelsea as they see a team that is under a lot of pressure, where first team chances are not guarenteed and where you could get sold after a year. maybe if mourinho can stabalize chelsea over the next two years they will be more appealing to top players who arn't only interested in money. and rooney's transfer fee will not be a problem i think. man u's board is cheap but they will spend when it is needed. just look at yorke, stam, ferdy, RvN, veron, ronaldo and saha. that's almost 120 million pounds worth of players there
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Post by Vish on Jul 4, 2004 15:53:38 GMT 10
well milner has moved to newcatle, for 5 million pounds. i think he's a good talent. he played well for leeds on the left wing lat season even though he is right footed. fergie was supposedly interested in him after losing out of robben. I would put him on the right in Ambroses/Dyer spot or on the left when Robert is off the boil or when Bellamy is injured and we chuck Robert up front but that is wishfull thinking. Ambrose would deal with it cause he is a competitor. Dyer can fuck off if he sulks. i think he will play well, but my worry is newcastle have too many midfielders who require first team action. robert, dyer, bowyer, speed, JJ, viana, ambrose and milner. Viana is all but gone. Speed may be when/if Butt comes which is unfortunate. Bowyer should be played in CM all the time with a combination of JJ/Speedo or Butt interchanging in the main defensive roles. Interestingly; Ambrose and Milner can play on both flanks and Milner can actually play in the center and as a striker apparantly. so no problem with the flanks. Good to know we have depth there for next year. mix of youth and experience is good, but i'm sure some of the players will be frustrated. if butt joins it'll get even harder. This is were SBR falls flat. He fails to drop players when they are underperforming. It is a problem which will hurt us next season. i know man u have lots of midfielders as well, but lets face it, scholes, giggs and keane are guarenteed starting positions if fit and ready, so everyone else who joined knows that they were fighting for two spots, and i think ronaldo deserves to play at right wing most of the time and if not him then solskjaer, so fletcher, kleberson, miller, djemba, p. neville, butt are all really fighting for the spot to partner keane, and they all know this. at newcaslte its less clear, so i guess player unrest is what i'm worried about. stil its a taleneted midifled on paper. Man U's first choice midfield writes itself. Whilst's its supporting players arent anything special, they are better then most teams supporting players. cisse is also very good. i've only caugth glimpses of him playing, but by all accounts he's very talented. top scorer in the french league for the past 3 years and remember last season elber, morientes and drogba were playing for lyon, monaco and marseille respectively and they have far superior teams to auxerre which is basically built around the defensive solidarity of mexes and boumsong and the creativity of kapo and cisse. so he has good credentials but so did veron. we'll wait and see. You would have to say that more players have suceeded from the French division that any other division in the British divisions. That's off the top of my head though. i think rooney prefers man u to chelsea. he doesn't want to leave the north-west of england and go to london, and at man u there is a system for young players to develop. Sounds about right. But the Rooney roumers seem to have died down a fair bit. presonally i think lots of top players are put off by chelsea as they see a team that is under a lot of pressure, where first team chances are not guarenteed and where you could get sold after a year. maybe if mourinho can stabalize chelsea over the next two years they will be more appealing to top players who arn't only interested in money. You could see what Mourihno is trying to do with cutting his squad back. Very smart. and rooney's transfer fee will not be a problem i think. man u's board is cheap but they will spend when it is needed. just look at yorke, stam, ferdy, RvN, veron, ronaldo and saha. that's almost 120 million pounds worth of players there Fark Gomesh! The Gaurdian have reported [broad-sheet=credible] that Fergie is willing to offload Alan Smith to Everton for Rooney! Bloddy hell! Miguel impressed me with his defending of Robben in the semi so i'm up for him now!..................ahhhh so fickle! |
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jul 5, 2004 16:48:43 GMT 10
did you watch the final? all i can say is that miguel is far better than paolo ferrira. the guy is useless. i can't see why yappa rates him. maybe my opinion will change when i see him at chelsea, but right now i wouldn't pay 3 million pounds for him much less the 13 or 14 that chelsea are splashing out. so yeah, miguel might just be a good accquisition for you guys. he looks good going forward, but i still question his defensive skills. he looked wanting against robben, and a more experienced winger like giggs or pires would destroy him i think.
yeah the rooney rumours have died down a bit, but it might be a good thing. last year everyone was talking about ronaldinho and in the end nothing happened. maybe this time a bit of stealth is needed. still even if we don't get rooney this season i wouldn't be too worried. but i would definately want him next year. so too gerrard. still a top player would be a nice signing right now. and i would still like figo for a year or two at man u.
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Post by Vish on Jul 5, 2004 22:10:55 GMT 10
Yep at the sportsbar with Blackman, Joe and Rahool. The Asians watched it in the city cause they set up screens on Lonsdale street for all the Greeks. all i can say is that miguel is far better than paolo ferrira. the guy is useless. i can't see why yappa rates him. maybe my opinion will change when i see him at chelsea, but right now i wouldn't pay 3 million pounds for him much less the 13 or 14 that chelsea are splashing out. Here here. Portugal lost a bit of attacking drive when Miguel went off and gained nothing when Ferrera came on. Ferrera doesn't seem like a 13 million pound RB at all. so yeah, miguel might just be a good accquisition for you guys. he looks good going forward, but i still question his defensive skills. he looked wanting against robben, and a more experienced winger like giggs or pires would destroy him i think. He likes getting forward but doesn't provide much effectivness in his attacking. I am surprised with your comment about Robben beating him? He smashed Robben who did nothing IMO. He is better then what we have got and he wouldn't be the only RB in the world that would be found wanting against Pires and Giggs! There seems to be many contradictions with the stories about Miguel and Newcastle now though. Seiteridis is a dead-set gun. Fair replacement for Ferrera. Pity that we were after him in January but then went cold after he broke his leg. yeah the rooney rumours have died down a bit, but it might be a good thing. last year everyone was talking about ronaldinho and in the end nothing happened. maybe this time a bit of stealth is needed. still even if we don't get rooney this season i wouldn't be too worried. but i would definately want him next year. so too gerrard. still a top player would be a nice signing right now. and i would still like figo for a year or two at man u. I would be surprised if Rooney doesn't end up at Man U. Would you expect Fergie to give away Smith, just after buying him? Gerrard will still leave if he doesn't see improvement. Figo would be great for you guys. |
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jul 6, 2004 13:45:10 GMT 10
well the thing was, personally i thought that miguel shut out robben not by man marking him or tackling well, but by muscling him out of the contest, and frankly i was rather surprised that miguel wasn't cautioned and that robben never got a free kick awarded to him. if i was not a portugal fan i would have been outraged. plus robben was given quite a bit of space to run around, and carvalho (who as i said after the champion's leauge final is a gun) had to cover for him. yes miguel's runs are rather pointless, but they can be a handful, and seriously how many teams would actually prefer to deal with a full back who makes fruitless runs rather than a fullback who stays in his own half. and is crossing and understanding with ronaldo/figo wasn't all that bad. with time, especially his understanding with the right winger will improve, and when you have shearer in the box, chances are he will score from a good cross. also miguel has only been playing at right back for the last 2 years. scolari converted him into that position. before that he was a right winger.
still overall i was impressed by miguel, and in the right back position only he and seiteridis shone during euro 2004, though there really arn't that many good right backs in the world today. the english press seem to think gary neville has his best tournament ever, but he was just continuing on from united, and i think his abilities were finally put under the spotlight since he had to cover for beckham both defensively and offensively, since beckham truely was quite useless.
and i am shocked that the greek captain was named player of the tournament. my feeling is that uefa are somehow trying to validate the result by saying that greece have the best players, which is untrue. they had the best team not the best players. and even though greece played well, i really wanted either portugal or czech republic to win as they played the best most attacking brand of football, while the greeks like porto played as a team and shut the opposition out and attacked on the counter. while i don't mind defensive football, and the greeks basically erected a wall in front of their goal and were tactically brilliant, i am disappointed that teams playing attacking football are found wanting against very defensive teams, and that cannot be good for the game as a whole.
i don't expect fergie to give smith away, but i know that he really wants rooney and gerrard, and my guess is that he will get rooney this summer, and maybe gerrard next year. btw mourinho says he doesn't want rooney, cause like me he doesn't think rooney is 'not a pure striker, a target man', but rather he seems to think that rooney ' plays with free movement just behind on both sides,' i.e a player in the scholes/totti/zidane/nedved role. anyway mourinho is smart. he wants a target man like drogba or morientes, and he already signed kezman. i think he will also sign a right winger, but no rooney. he has shown interest in deco, but i think deco is going to barca, which means chelsea will have to look for someone else.
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Post by Vish on Jul 7, 2004 17:57:29 GMT 10
well the thing was, personally i thought that miguel shut out robben not by man marking him or tackling well, but by muscling him out of the contest, and frankly i was rather surprised that miguel wasn't cautioned and that robben never got a free kick awarded to him. if i was not a portugal fan i would have been outraged. plus robben was given quite a bit of space to run around, and carvalho (who as i said after the champion's leauge final is a gun) had to cover for him. Fair point. yes miguel's runs are rather pointless, but they can be a handful, and seriously how many teams would actually prefer to deal with a full back who makes fruitless runs rather than a fullback who stays in his own half. Carvahlo and Costinha covered his ass. If he plays in a team with a 442 setup he will probably be caught out a fair bit. and is crossing and understanding with ronaldo/figo wasn't all that bad. with time, especially his understanding with the right winger will improve, and when you have shearer in the box, chances are he will score from a good cross. also miguel has only been playing at right back for the last 2 years. scolari converted him into that position. before that he was a right winger. True. Wasn't it Camacho [Reals new manager] who converted him? still overall i was impressed by miguel, and in the right back position only he and seiteridis shone during euro 2004, though there really arn't that many good right backs in the world today. True. Very true. At least I can be happy that Newcastle went fro the best available - Trabelsi, Miguel, Seiteridis.......... the english press seem to think gary neville has his best tournament ever, but he was just continuing on from united, and i think his abilities were finally put under the spotlight since he had to cover for beckham both defensively and offensively, since beckham truely was quite useless. Maybe [like me], they didn't rate him before. He was a very good RB for Euro. and i am shocked that the greek captain was named player of the tournament. my feeling is that uefa are somehow trying to validate the result by saying that greece have the best players, which is untrue. they had the best team not the best players. and even though greece played well, i really wanted either portugal or czech republic to win as they played the best most attacking brand of football, while the greeks like porto played as a team and shut the opposition out and attacked on the counter. while i don't mind defensive football, and the greeks basically erected a wall in front of their goal and were tactically brilliant, i am disappointed that teams playing attacking football are found wanting against very defensive teams, and that cannot be good for the game as a whole. Partially agree. I would say that the method that the Greeks use is good to watch. It's like a chess match. Whilst you don't get a Czech v Holland type epic you get a good game of technical soccer. Its EPL=Czechs/Holland or SA=Greeks i don't expect fergie to give smith away, but i know that he really wants rooney and gerrard, and my guess is that he will get rooney this summer, and maybe gerrard next year. Did you read that Arsenal were the only team to go through the correct channels to obtain Gerrard! btw mourinho says he doesn't want rooney, cause like me he doesn't think rooney is 'not a pure striker, a target man', but rather he seems to think that rooney ' plays with free movement just behind on both sides,' i.e a player in the scholes/totti/zidane/nedved role. Would you agree that he played the role very very well agianst France and Switzerland? anyway mourinho is smart. he wants a target man like drogba or morientes, and he already signed kezman. i think he will also sign a right winger, but no rooney. he has shown interest in deco, but i think deco is going to barca, which means chelsea will have to look for someone else. Interesting that Morinho said that Kezman is " multifunctional" and can play on the right wing. He'll need to get one though. Just on Deco though. He would be shit in the EPL at all. Good choice by him. I don't like him as a player as well. Can't stand his fucking diving. No wonder Figo baged him. |
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Post by HH on Jul 8, 2004 22:55:52 GMT 10
I don't like him as a player as well. Can't stand his fucking diving. Wanganeen. ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Vish on Jul 12, 2004 21:49:16 GMT 10
Newcastle are preparing a shock £30m bid for Rooney.(Mail on Sunday)
Fat Fred must be desperate to get some idiots to renew there season tickets after his fuck up last year in not buying players which pissed the fans off.
No Roon chance at the Toon.
Smells of Ronaldihno last year.
I can't believe I fell for that.
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