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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jun 11, 2004 16:50:23 GMT 10
defensive football i don't mind to much as i can still appreciate the tactial genius of the play(something all those prawn sandwich eaters can't, and the faster we get rid of them the faster i can get a ticket into a match)
dirty tackling, well i don't like to see ppl get hurt, so no to that
diving. i hate diving. ruins the game in my opinion, and it takes away from the class of top players. everytime i see pires play, i always wonder when he's going to fall. i know that RvN and ronaldo have been accused of it, but i don't think ronaldo dives. he just gets tackled all the time, and being quite light still, goes to ground occasionally. RvN doesn't dive, especially not last season wit his shocking penalty conversion rate ( i think he mised like 4 out of 6 penalties)
what do i see in fletcher? well he has potential. he reads the game decently well, and makes good runs. his passing is getting better every game and i'm sure he'll be a class act. he's been hindered by injuries like wes brown, so i say give him time. he coudl be like mendieta who didn't blossum till he was 25 or perrotta( who will start for italy in central midfield). not all great players were class youngsters. vieria, kluivert, davids were all flops at milan. henry did nothing at juve. and franco baresi, one of the all time great defenders was rejected by inter as they thought he wouldn't be good enough. btw they also rejected bepe signori and kaka just to name a few.
hear the shearer rumour? he's apparently going to sign for genoa, a serie B club. i think they got promoted.
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Post by Vish on Jun 11, 2004 21:08:31 GMT 10
defensive football i don't mind to much as i can still appreciate the tactial genius of the play(something all those prawn sandwich eaters can't, and the faster we get rid of them the faster i can get a ticket into a match) I agree, I grew to like draws after watching the Villa/Newcastle match which was one of the most enjoyable matches I have ever seen, much like the Man U and Arsenal draws we had this year. dirty tackling, well i don't like to see ppl get hurt, so no to that Roy Keane? diving. i hate diving. ruins the game in my opinion, and it takes away from the class of top players. everytime i see pires play, i always wonder when he's going to fall. i know that RvN and ronaldo have been accused of it, but i don't think ronaldo dives. he just gets tackled all the time, and being quite light still, goes to ground occasionally. RvN doesn't dive, especially not last season wit his shocking penalty conversion rate ( i think he mised like 4 out of 6 penalties) You've got to respect C.Ronaldo after watching the F.A. cup final when Denis Wise stomped on him and he just laughed and got on with the job. I wouldn't lable RvN a diver (he has though, obviously), but he ain't no Ronaldo[The fat Brazillian fellow] what do i see in fletcher? well he has potential. he reads the game decently well, and makes good runs. his passing is getting better every game and i'm sure he'll be a class act. he's been hindered by injuries like wes brown, so i say give him time. he coudl be like mendieta who didn't blossum till he was 25 or perrotta( who will start for italy in central midfield). not all great players were class youngsters. vieria, kluivert, davids were all flops at milan. henry did nothing at juve. and franco baresi, one of the all time great defenders was rejected by inter as they thought he wouldn't be good enough. btw they also rejected bepe signori and kaka just to name a few. I see. I shall look at him the next time I see Man U play hear the shearer rumour? he's apparently going to sign for genoa, a serie B club. i think they got promoted. Yeah, He has already refuted it. Shearer to Genoa = Ronaldihno to Newcastle
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Post by Vish on Jun 12, 2004 1:51:51 GMT 10
Despite the source, At least it's from a better team!
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jun 13, 2004 20:24:15 GMT 10
hahahaha
tribalfootball comes up with lots of rubbish, but at least its funny to read.
for transfer news that isn't rubbish, soccernet it a good bet, but their site seems to have disappeared for euro 2004.
but my gut tells me that someone big is coming to man u over the summer. either rooney or gerrard i think, but maybe someone else. its not going to be a striker, cause we have enough ( and rooney's not a striker. his final position will be similar to totti, scholes and zidane). might be a winger or another central midfielder, but i definately see a big move on the cards. after last season, losing beckham and veron and not getting ronaldinho, fergie will want a big name player to show the rest of the world that man u still can compete with the richest and the biggest. rooney and gerrard fit the bill, they are young, fiesty and british. what do you reckon?
btw what did you think fo the portugal-greece game? personally i prefer ronaldo, deco, carvalho and tiago to be playing rather than simao, rui costa, couto and costinha/petit. they are my favourite team, so i don't want another first round exit.
actually keano has become quite tame of late. watch the last two seasons compared with mid to late 90's. there is a stark contrast. its much like wayne carey now compared to his heyday(forgive me if i'm using the wrong analogy, but i think it fits). keane lacks the bite that vieria and gerrard have, and doesn't really impose himself on the game completely
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Post by Vish on Jun 13, 2004 21:42:10 GMT 10
hahahaha tribalfootball comes up with lots of rubbish, but at least its funny to read. for transfer news that isn't rubbish, soccernet it a good bet, but their site seems to have disappeared for euro 2004. True. But one thing that is good about TribalFootball is that because it is a rumour site, you never get suprised when stuff actually happens. but my gut tells me that someone big is coming to man u over the summer. either rooney or gerrard i think, but maybe someone else. its not going to be a striker, cause we have enough ( and rooney's not a striker. his final position will be similar to totti, scholes and zidane). might be a winger or another central midfielder, but i definately see a big move on the cards. after last season, losing beckham and veron and not getting ronaldinho, fergie will want a big name player to show the rest of the world that man u still can compete with the richest and the biggest. rooney and gerrard fit the bill, they are young, fiesty and british. what do you reckon? I agree. Rooney would be my tip for Man U, there is a fair bit of "chatter" of a firm bid. Lots of talk about Gerrard leaving. ...........To Chelsea. Nice midfield especially if they get Deco as well. Lampard, Deco, Gerrard, Duff, Fuck! btw what did you think fo the portugal-greece game? personally i prefer ronaldo, deco, carvalho and tiago to be playing rather than simao, rui costa, couto and costinha/petit. they are my favourite team, so i don't want another first round exit. I agree with having those players on the pitch. actually keano has become quite tame of late. watch the last two seasons compared with mid to late 90's. there is a stark contrast. its much like wayne carey now compared to his heyday(forgive me if i'm using the wrong analogy, but i think it fits). keane lacks the bite that vieria and gerrard have, and doesn't really impose himself on the game completely Good analogy. I actually should have used Gerrard after a few dirty, dirty tackles he did against Newcastle at SJP. Still a wonderful player though. He is 24 right now. Any chance of him being one of the top 3 players in the world in your opinion Gomesh?
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jun 14, 2004 16:38:25 GMT 10
about chelsea: firstly i would sign a right winger for them. joaquin is apparently on the market, and exteberria who keeps him on the spanish bench is another gun. also chelsea could prise figo or quaresma away form real and barca respectively. so i wouldn't sign deco, but if he does play, then so will makalele in sentral midfield, so that they have a playmaker and an anchor. if gerrard signs, then its gerrard and lampard in central midfield. that's the reason i thought veron failed at man u and chelsea. veron only does well if his central midfield partner cleans up behind him (at lazio he had deigo simeone who only knows how to tackle). keane and lampard don't do that. butt/p.neville and makalele do, and veron was at his best when he partnered butt/p.neville in man u's central midfield. remember back to jerzy dudek's two howlers for liverpool that let forlan score a brace, and the following match against arsenal. veron was a god in those games, back to his very best, which is very very good
yeah gerrard will be very good. top 3? depends on which club he plalys for and how well that club plays. assuming man u sign gerrard, then he will be playing in a team with world class players like RvN, scholes and ferdy, a left winger who only comes second to cryuff in the all time list, the most dominant central midfielder in the premiership since its inception and a portugese kid who i think will become the best player in the world. naturally in a team like that he will only grow as a player, and if and when he does become the dominant player in such a team, then he(gerrard) will be one of the world's top players. naturally its far easier for me to point out the strengths of Man u than say chelsea, but you must admit there really isn't a world class player at chelsea at the moment. lampard, duff, makalele, terry they are all very good players, but not one of them would make a world XI, while the man u players will.
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Post by Vish on Jun 14, 2004 21:03:05 GMT 10
about chelsea: firstly i would sign a right winger for them. joaquin is apparently on the market, and exteberria who keeps him on the spanish bench is another gun. also chelsea could prise figo or quaresma away form real and barca respectively. so i wouldn't sign deco, but if he does play, then so will makalele in sentral midfield, so that they have a playmaker and an anchor. if gerrard signs, then its gerrard and lampard in central midfield. Gerrard and Lampard in the center with Deco playing in the "hole". Brilliant. They do need a right winger. Who did they use last year? Geremi, Gronjkear......?...... Nothing special there. I hope Quaresma gets a go with Portagul so I can have a look at him cuz, he was rated as high, if not hight then C. Ronaldo before they were sold off. that's the reason i thought veron failed at man u and chelsea. veron only does well if his central midfield partner cleans up behind him (at lazio he had deigo simeone who only knows how to tackle). keane and lampard don't do that. butt/p.neville and makalele do, and veron was at his best when he partnered butt/p.neville in man u's central midfield. remember back to jerzy dudek's two howlers for liverpool that let forlan score a brace, and the following match against arsenal. veron was a god in those games, back to his very best, which is very very good Agree with you Gomesh about Veron. Somewhat like Viana[even though Veron is 10 times better then Viana at this stage] who can't play his game without hurting the team defensivly unless he has one or even better two defensive midfielders protecting the back 4. yeah gerrard will be very good. top 3? depends on which club he plalys for and how well that club plays. assuming man u sign gerrard, then he will be playing in a team with world class players like RvN, scholes and ferdy, a left winger who only comes second to cryuff in the all time list, the most dominant central midfielder in the premiership since its inception and a portugese kid who i think will become the best player in the world. naturally in a team like that he will only grow as a player, and if and when he does become the dominant player in such a team, then he(gerrard) will be one of the world's top players. naturally its far easier for me to point out the strengths of Man u than say chelsea, but you must admit there really isn't a world class player at chelsea at the moment. lampard, duff, makalele, terry they are all very good players, but not one of them would make a world XI, while the man u players will. I would say Makelele is a world class player. Real, France, Winner. I would also say that Duff is boarderline world class and the only thing holding him back from being world class at the moment is the amount of injuries he has had. I reckon that if he was at Man U instead of Chelsea, you would think he was world class. Crespo? Gallas? They may not have the amount of world class players as Man U/Arsenal but they now have one of the best managers in the world now and thats a start at least BTW, Joe want's to watch some soccer. how about the Engerland/Switzerland match on Thursday @ 2?
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Post by Vish on Jun 16, 2004 15:21:15 GMT 10
So far I've onmly seen one match in its entierity [Itay/Denmark].
Italy have to improve alot for them to go past the group stages.
They have Sweden next who are in hot form.
Denmark were fucking good.
I want Hel Veg at Newcastle.
Rommedahl is a joy to watch and would adapt nicely to the EPL.
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jun 17, 2004 15:29:19 GMT 10
makalele is useful. world class? i don't know. do you read soccernet's editorials? phill ball, soccernet's spainish guru once compared defensive midfielders to 4WDs. xabi, xavi, baraja were the japanese 4WDs(aka terago, etc), makalele was a range rover and vieria and rolls royce or soemthing like that. i can't remember the exact cars he used. but it was a very interesting read. i would try find the article but the main soccernet website seems to be down. anyway the point is not every good player can be termed world class. all you have to do, is look at veron or cannavaro to see how far they have fallen. 3 or 4 years ago they would have been considered world class. today they would be lucky to get into the top 5 in their positions. same with duff. a very good player no doubt, but not yet world class. in a year or two maybe, but not yet. crespo & kluivert were all world class once, but not anymore. maybe my opinion is a biased, but ferdinand, scholes, nistelrooy and even giggs are world class players. keane may be past his use by date, but is still very good, and well young ronaldo can only improve
quaresma is not in the portugese squad. neither is viana, hugo leal or boa morte, all four of whom will be in the squad come the next world cup
i like the deco in the hole idea. but first they will need a striker who can play up front alone without any support in addition to a right winger.
simon and me might go watch the holland vs czech on sunday morning. i'm leaving that afternoon. but whatever you want to do, give me a call, and i'll try to drop by.
you can take helveg from inter. i don't want him. he's a very interesting player. we(inter) bought him from milan about 4 yrs ago, but loaned him to them for the past 3 seasons, before getting him back for the 03/04 season. i think he's j. zanetti's understudy, but with zac leaving and maybe mancini taking over, i see a shake up at inter.
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jun 17, 2004 15:44:29 GMT 10
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Post by Vish on Jun 17, 2004 17:18:06 GMT 10
makalele is useful. world class? i don't know. do you read soccernet's editorials? phill ball, soccernet's spainish guru once compared defensive midfielders to 4WDs. xabi, xavi, baraja were the japanese 4WDs(aka terago, etc), makalele was a range rover and vieria and rolls royce or soemthing like that. So that's one world class DCM in in the world then? At the moment Makelele would have to be in the top-5. Is that good enough to be world-class? Or does it say more about the quality of DCM's right now? anyway the point is not every good player can be termed world class. all you have to do, is look at veron or cannavaro to see how far they have fallen. 3 or 4 years ago they would have been considered world class. I'm sure Veron will still rip Italy and the CL apart when he goes to Inter next season. Can you call him world-class now though? Probably not. Gomesh = Correct. today they would be lucky to get into the top 5 in their positions. same with duff. a very good player no doubt, but not yet world class. in a year or two maybe, but not yet. crespo & kluivert were all world class once, but not anymore. Kluivert, yes. Crespo? After one season he isn't world-class? On that same logic, Mutu who was a young-gun, is a young-Heskey after one season. You give any player patchy chances to adapt to the PL after being comfortable in the S-A and they will look shit. They needed many full 90 minute games in a row but were as a result of Chelsea's depth they never got a chance. It's a bit too early to write Crespo off yet. IMO, he would still be world-class in your eyes if never left Inter which is interesting. Does a player need to be able to play in different leagues to be world class? What are the characteristics in your opinion gomesh? maybe my opinion is a biased, but ferdinand, scholes, nistelrooy and even giggs are world class players. keane may be past his use by date, but is still very good, and well young ronaldo can only improve I aggree Gomesh. I was a bit hesitant on Scholes due to his poor international showings and Ferdinand due to his age but he has runs on the board in the WC and in the PL. quaresma is not in the portugese squad. neither is viana, hugo leal or boa morte, all four of whom will be in the squad come the next world cup Shame about Quaresma, but only due to the fact that I wanted to see what he was like. He, like Viana etc, will get there chance. I think Viana is going to get a chance to go on loan. I'm hoping its to a Serie A club cuase he will be awesome there. i like the deco in the hole idea. but first they will need a striker who can play up front alone without any support in addition to a right winger. Mr. Morientes? simon and me might go watch the holland vs czech on sunday morning. i'm leaving that afternoon. but whatever you want to do, give me a call, and i'll try to drop by. I've got work the next day so it's a no go unfortunately. you can take helveg from inter. i don't want him. he's a very interesting player. we(inter) bought him from milan about 4 yrs ago, but loaned him to them for the past 3 seasons, before getting him back for the 03/04 season. i think he's j. zanetti's understudy, but with zac leaving and maybe mancini taking over, i see a shake up at inter. Checked his age an he is 32. Shame. I wonder if Mancini will stand for Moriatti's shit.
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jun 18, 2004 16:29:18 GMT 10
well in terms of world class DCM, i would have vieria and gerrard up i that category. for the top 5 makalele, davids and maybe keane would be there. other alternatives include baraja and van bommel. i rate xabi alonso very highly but he's still young and has time on his side.
yes i suppose crespo should be given another season or two to show his class, but for a stirker who has been transferred for a combined sum of over 100 million pounds, and remember he was the cl top scorer with inter till he got injured, not the mention the fact that he was one of serie A's most lethal forwards, i think most ppl had high expectations of him. and the thing is being a striker is such a messy business. one day your the best and the next your a has been. the top 5 strikers in the world today woudl include sheva, RvN, ronaldo, henry and with another position to be fought out amongst the likes of vieri, trezeguet, makaay and morientes. and we have left out the likes of owen, crespo,shearer, kluivert, cisse, drogba, adriano, raul, luis fabiano, torres, cavanaghi, tevez, ibrhamovic, larsson, inzaghi, del piero, gilardino, saha, mista, pandiani and thats not even including forwards like totti, cassano, ronaldinho, rivaldo, rooney, recoba, luque and well the list goes on and on and on. i guess it really is a personal choice. btw i might have missed out half a dozen stars simple because there a so many
point of note for mutu. he was only ever good for one season. so he would fall into the category with ppl like james beattie who still have a lot to prove.
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Post by Vish on Jun 18, 2004 16:48:27 GMT 10
well in terms of world class DCM, i would have vieria and gerrard up i that category. for the top 5 makalele, davids and maybe keane would be there. other alternatives include baraja and van bommel. i rate xabi alonso very highly but he's still young and has time on his side. Micheal Essien is apparantly a clone of Patrick Viera. He plays in the French league and is really young. Hopefully he'll get into the squad for the world cup so I can have a proper look at him. I personally wouldn't have Gerrard as a world DCM. I would have him as a world class CM if anything. One of the best all round midfielders in the world. BTW, Is being in the top 5 enough to be world class? yes i suppose crespo should be given another season or two to show his class, but for a stirker who has been transferred for a combined sum of over 100 million pounds, and remember he was the cl top scorer with inter till he got injured, not the mention the fact that he was one of serie A's most lethal forwards, i think most ppl had high expectations of him. and the thing is being a striker is such a messy business. one day your the best and the next your a has been. True. How is his International record though? the top 5 strikers in the world today woudl include sheva, RvN, ronaldo, henry and with another position to be fought out amongst the likes of vieri, trezeguet, makaay and morientes. and we have left out the likes of owen, crespo,shearer, kluivert, cisse, drogba, adriano, raul, luis fabiano, torres, cavanaghi, tevez, ibrhamovic, larsson, inzaghi, del piero, gilardino, saha, mista, pandiani and thats not even including forwards like totti, cassano, ronaldinho, rivaldo, rooney, recoba, luque and well the list goes on and on and on. i guess it really is a personal choice. btw i might have missed out half a dozen stars simple because there a so many Personally my top 5 would be the ones you listed: Shevchenko, Henry, Nistlerooy, Ronaldo, plus Morientes. point of note for mutu. he was only ever good for one season. so he would fall into the category with ppl like james beattie who still have a lot to prove. I'll take your word for it. Although, unlike Beattie who is a poor-mans Shearer, Mutu is a huuuuuuuge talent. His style of play is very much like Gudjohnson who is just as talented as Mutu. I watched the Eng vs. + match and Rooney played the CF role brilliantly. The more I saw of him, the more i saw less of the Scholes role you were talking of. He was consistanly a class above the rest, were as Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard wen't missing a bit. Lampard is out of sorts.
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Post by Vish on Jun 20, 2004 0:35:30 GMT 10
The news is:
Mido/Loan to Newcastle
Robert/Loan to Marsille
Only if Milner/Transfer to Newcastle.
Pretty stupid IMO getting rid of Robert for Milner.
Very stupid.
You guys are supposed to be in front ahead of Chelsea on the Rooney sale.
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jun 25, 2004 5:23:44 GMT 10
firstly regarding midfielders, i've given it a lot of thought and its strikes me as its is very difficult to split players into distinct groups. i mean most would consider zidane, totti and scholes to be AMC but totti tends to play slightly higher up the field than zidane or scholes who play in slightly ahead of say the central midfield. and then you have the likes of ballack and lampard who play slightly behind them, followed by ppl like gerrard and seedorf and then vieria, davids and keane and then makalele, baraja, butt... anyway my point is that there really are no distinct zones. afterall you wouldn't say that lampard and ballack are similar players to say gerrard even though by your reckoning both would be CM. but anyway i decided to split them up anyway into 5 groups(there really shoudl be 6 with the mc group split up but i couldn't do it properly) and players in no particular order who i think would fit into that group
playmaker: totti, ronaldihno, aimar, rosicky, valeron, deco amc:scholes, zidane, nedved, veron mc:ballack, emre, lampard, stanjkovic,gerrard, xabi alonso, pirlo, seedorf dmc:vieria, keane, davids, emerson, c. zanetti, anchor: makalele, butt, baraja, gatusso, hamann, jeremies
what do you think?
rooney would develop well at man u. definately fergie would control his temper. still wherever he goes, he will become better. to compare him to pele is drastic to say the least, but the english definately are number one at raising expectations. i still think rooney will play in scholes roles. maybe a bit more totti style but still not as an out and out forward. he can never be a vieri or RvN or ronaldo cause he doesn't have the size. after the portugal v england game maybe i'll see the error of my ways, but we'll wait till then also i thikn missing out on robben was a massive loss. till i saw him play for holland against the czech's and the flashes i caught of the latvia match when i was flicking channels tells me he will be brilliant.
regarding the transfer speculation, mido would be good, so too would milner. the loss of robert woudl be too much though. its the silly season in england. i think it was cryuff who once said those who can play foot ball well as kids will become professionals. those who can't play as all become journalists. so i usually take the rumours with a pinch of salt, but if soccernet says so, then be a bit more wary. they don't make up stuff very often
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