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Post by Vish on Jan 26, 2004 20:34:04 GMT 10
OUT: Ferguson
IN: O'Neill
Implimentation by Magnier
ManUre: The new Liverpool/Wimbeldon.
This is very real Gomesh.
Be scared.
Be very scared.
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jan 29, 2004 12:18:02 GMT 10
can't and won't happen. for magnier to take over man u he will need at least 80% of the shares( i think. this is from memory so may not be accurate. have to check the stock market rules) anyway, man utd shareholders association which is made up of fans owns slightly more than 10% collectively. that means that magnier basically has to convice every other shareholder to sell him thier shares and if a few of them oppose, he can't take over. plus he's a business man. he's not dumb. if he sacks fergie, nistelrooy, giggs, scholes, keane will all leave with him. share price will tumble to rock bottom. investors lose confidence in magnier's board and they will call an egm to kick him out. the only way he can prevent that is todo an abramovich style takeover where he and only he owns the club, and that will cost about 750 million pounds more investment from him. i think that will take his investment to over 1 billion pounds, only about 5 or 6 times the money abramovich paid for chelsea. either way kicking fergie out means he will lose shit loads of money, and he doesn't want to lose money. most likely he will continue to exert pressure on man u and fergie till the rock of gilbrator court case is over and then disappear into the background.
on another more conspirical note, maybe he and fergie set this whole thing up. the very public breakup of two friends, fergie's dirty linen hung out to dry. then magnier buys man u, and makes fergie chairman of company or something along those lines. highly unlikely, but two years ago before the court case, fergie was promised a post in the board when he retired and i don't think he got one
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Post by Vish on Jan 29, 2004 14:05:32 GMT 10
We (Shareholders United) had a major battle to keep Murdoch out but were ultimately successful and we now have an even bigger fight on our hands. Interesting that it is the Murdoch owned press that are backing Magnier to the hilt. This is going to be a long bitter fight Unfortunately Fergie has picked the wrong man here These people don't take these disputes lightly and Magnier currently has 35 full time investigators from the world renowned Kroll agency working on digging background dirt on Fergie. They have made it pretty obvious (with their other colleague Dermot Desmond who has a significant shareholding) that they want Desmond & Martin O'Neill to come down from Celtic and run the club. If they manage to oust Fergie the share price will go into freefall making it much cheaper for them to launch their takeover bid. There is a VERY REAL chance that Fergie won't survive this. In fact I would say it's odds on at the moment. Bearing in mind that Magnier now controls 25% of the club shares, he won't need too many other shareholders to side with him to get rid of Fergie. Bearing in mind a lot of shareholders resent the power that Fergie seems to wield inside the club............... I'm not convinced he'll see out this season, _____. Sadly he has got himself to blame for a lot of it. These are two very stubborn people, neither will give an inch. Magnier seems to banking on the fact that the more bad publicity he can create for the club then the more shareholders will side with him to avoid bad publicity. The Murdoch press seem to having a field day with stuff that Magnier has leaked to them, particularly regarding Jason Ferguson's role in incoming transfers. At the end of the day though, Jason Ferguson is a FIFA registered agent. It might well be blatant nepotism to use him but not against the rules as long as he's licensed. Ouch', It must have hurt reading that! My response is enclosed in those quotes. In short however. Fergie is fucked. Come to Newcastle Fregie! as this poster said. he's an arsehole but then he'd be OUR arsehole. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Jan 31, 2004 16:43:22 GMT 10
but you see the problem for magnier is that the shareholders won't side with him. when someone that organisation happens to be the most powerful and the most richest club in the world. if magnier ousts fergie, the share price will drop. no shareholder will allow that to happen. the consequence is too daunting for even magnier to comprehend. no businessman will buy an company where all the customers hate him. fergie may be an arrogant prick but lets face it, man u are where they are now cause of him. the players come and go, but fergie has always been there during man u very successful 90's and now. naturally most fans want him to stay. there are of course a few ignorant ones who dislike him for getting rid of beckham like a piece of meat.
as for the celtic links, how many clubs has martin o'neil been linked with? basically any premiership club without injects money into an organisation the last thing they want to do is to make a loss, especially when a manager or any big club going through a bad run. the bottom line is, i doubt someone like o'neill will be put in charge of man u. tottenham or southampton maybe but not man u or for that matter a big club like liverpool or chelsea. there is too much to lose, and to put someone in charge of a big european club after he has had a long tenure in scotland ableit a successful one is too risky.if and when fergie goes the man to replace him will be the lippi's and trappatoni's of the world. a manager who has proven to be successful at a big club both at home and in europe. if he has experience in the premiership it would be better but that has not stopped the likes of fergie or wenger or ranieri or even houllier from being successful.
btw quoting from a person whom i've never heard of is not really going to impress me or scare me for that matter. ever since the magnier fiasco came out, there have been hundreds of articles all on the same thing.
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Post by Vish on Jan 31, 2004 21:55:13 GMT 10
but you see the problem for magnier is that the shareholders won't side with him. when someone that organisation happens to be the most powerful and the most richest club in the world. if magnier ousts fergie, the share price will drop. no shareholder will allow that to happen.[/qoute] It would then make it ripe for a cut price takeover bid I would think. the consequence is too daunting for even magnier to comprehend. no businessman will buy an company where all the customers hate him. Would they? Get a winning manager and all is forgotten. Get a profit and all is forgotten even quicker. fergie may be an arrogant prick but lets face it, man u are where they are now cause of him. Don't forget to thank your previous manager (Taggart?) for setting up a quality youth academy and your 'suits' for making your club the biggest PLC that is a Football Club. the players come and go, but fergie has always been there during man u very successful 90's and now. naturally most fans want him to stay. there are of course a few ignorant ones who dislike him for getting rid of beckham like a piece of meat. Rare amounts I would think. Sharesholders United will be Mangiers biggest obsticle, just like they were to Murdoch. as for the celtic links, how many clubs has martin o'neil been linked with? Liverpool, Man Utd. Thats It. Liverpool because they are a proud club used to silverware. In short, winners. MO'N is a winner. Man Utd becasue Mangier and the other 'M' like him. basically any premiership club without injects money into an organisation the last thing they want to do is to make a loss, especially when a manager or any big club going through a bad run. This makes no sense at all Gomesh. the bottom line is, i doubt someone like o'neill will be put in charge of man u. tottenham or southampton maybe but not man u or for that matter a big club like liverpool or chelsea. Frankly, I don't even believe that he would come to Newcastle. He is destined to go to Man Utd, Liverpool. Those clubs are put into the same group when it comes to success. there is too much to lose, and to put someone in charge of a big european club after he has had a long tenure in scotland ableit a successful one is too risky. Where the heck did Fergie come from!?!?!?!?!?!? if and when fergie goes the man to replace him will be the lippi's and trappatoni's of the world. a manager who has proven to be successful at a big club both at home and in europe. if he has experience in the premiership it would be better but that has not stopped the likes of fergie or wenger or ranieri or even houllier from being successful. Trappatoni has been linked to the Spurs FFS! Lippi would be a good one. Good luck in trying to get him to leave. btw quoting from a person whom i've never heard of is not really going to impress me or scare me for that matter. ever since the magnier fiasco came out, there have been hundreds of articles all on the same thing. This person i'm quoting is someone who LIVES in Manchester. Yeah I know its rare to find someone who lives in Manchester and goes for Man U. Not only that, he is a top class poster who is never one to sensationalise and talk BS. This guy isn't a reporter who may have bias against Man Utd. He is a fan. Why would he talk BS? You would think being apart of Shareholders United would make you much more privy to the goings on of this saga than the average journalist eh? Basically, he knows his shit.
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Post by Vish on Jan 31, 2004 22:22:23 GMT 10
BTW,
The 12 month rolling contract sez' it all IMO>
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Feb 2, 2004 14:28:29 GMT 10
actually i like the rolling contract idea. cause that way fergie can quit when he wants to without all the publicity. see what has happened to southhampton. when the players find out the manager is going to leave they get a bit disillusioned, especially the ones that the manager brounght into the team from nowhere.
the part you cannot understand is my fault. i was doing something else,a dn must have got mixed up.
fergie came from aberdeen. but before he took over man u, he was manager of scotland. i think he managed scotland in the 1986 world cup. not sure though.
the manager before fergie and after sir matt busby were a bunch of hacks that couldn't handle the pressure. ron atkinson was the one just before fergie i think.
fergie set up the youth academy with help form sir matt busby. martin edwards(aka the suits) was ready to sell man u twice in the late eighties and early nineties, before fergie won the league. he was really to sell to rupert murdoch as well before shareholders united and the government overruled it.
i don't think martin o'neill can cut it at the top. he was at leicester before he took over celtic. i think it was 6 months after he left when leicester got relegated. the difference between him and fergie, is that fergie was able to mould the only team outside the old firm to challenge for the spl over a period of time since WWII. plus he won the cup winner's cup and a few scottish cups. lippi i think would be the preferred person to replace fergie if he does leave. maybe hitzfield or eriksson have a chance too. a certain pedigree is needed i think, and also someone that encourages young players into his team. liam miller was on the outter with o'neill for the past 3 years, till he broke into the first team this year, while lippi at juve has a strong tradition of blooding good young italians. youth/ home grown talent has always been the key to man u's success. i suppose o'neill does have a chance, but i don't think he can handle the pressure of the job.
and i don't think fergie is going to go anywhere voluntarilly for a long time. he's building his next team. all the young players coming in. plus i think he woudl like to be around when man u get freddy adu( i so hope they do) but we shall see. he may always retire when he wins the champion's leauge again.
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Post by Vish on Feb 3, 2004 13:58:00 GMT 10
actually i like the rolling contract idea. cause that way fergie can quit when he wants to without all the publicity. see what has happened to southhampton. when the players find out the manager is going to leave they get a bit disillusioned, especially the ones that the manager brounght into the team from nowhere. Yeah, Southampton have been shit lately eh? hey were shit against you huh? What offside goal!?!?! What Souper Kev tap in that was missed!?!?!? the part you cannot understand is my fault. i was doing something else,a dn must have got mixed up. You are young. I forgive you ;D fergie came from aberdeen. but before he took over man u, he was manager of scotland. i think he managed scotland in the 1986 world cup. not sure though. the manager before fergie and after sir matt busby were a bunch of hacks that couldn't handle the pressure. ron atkinson was the one just before fergie i think. fergie set up the youth academy with help form sir matt busby. martin edwards(aka the suits) was ready to sell man u twice in the late eighties and early nineties, before fergie won the league. he was really to sell to rupert murdoch as well before shareholders united and the government overruled it. Ditto, although nicely written i don't think martin o'neill can cut it at the top. he was at leicester before he took over celtic. i think it was 6 months after he left when leicester got relegated. the difference between him and fergie, is that fergie was able to mould the only team outside the old firm to challenge for the spl over a period of time since WWII. plus he won the cup winner's cup and a few scottish cups. lippi i think would be the preferred person to replace fergie if he does leave. maybe hitzfield or eriksson have a chance too. a certain pedigree is needed i think, and also someone that encourages young players into his team. liam miller was on the outter with o'neill for the past 3 years, till he broke into the first team this year, while lippi at juve has a strong tradition of blooding good young italians. youth/ home grown talent has always been the key to man u's success. i suppose o'neill does have a chance, but i don't think he can handle the pressure of the job. Well it seems that the footballing world seems that he can. Mind you it's the fact that he breeds a winning mentality that appeals to me personally. Hitzfield? Who is he? and i don't think fergie is going to go anywhere voluntarilly for a long time. he's building his next team. all the young players coming in. plus i think he woudl like to be around when man u get freddy adu( i so hope they do) but we shall see. he may always retire when he wins the champion's leauge again. Fergie is not the guy to retire gracefully. BTW, who are those young players you speak of? Bellion? Djemba-Djemba? Kleberson? Fletcher? Brown? Dong? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I'll give credit to Howard, Ferdinand and Oshea though. BTW, I must say that I was impressed with Saha against Southampton. His skill/first touch was impressive but he has to go a long way to justify the money you spent on him.
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Post by HH on Feb 3, 2004 22:17:13 GMT 10
Ottmar Hitzfeld, if I'm not mistaken. Once coached Bayern to CL glory (I think) Sorry, I'm just all about one-upmanship ;D
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Feb 7, 2004 13:44:00 GMT 10
vish i can't believe you don't know who hitzfield is. harlz is right he won the champion's league with bayern, and also with dortmund and i think about half a dozen bundesliga titles and german cups and german league cups
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Feb 7, 2004 13:54:45 GMT 10
man u youngsters:
howard(23 or 24), silvestre(25), ferdinand(25), o'shea( 22 or 23),brown (23), kleberson (23), djemba-djemba(24), liam miller(22 or 23), ronaldo(19), fletcher (19), richardson(19), chris eagles(18), mads timm(18), dong(18), bellion (20 ?), michael stewwart(22 or 23), saha (25) and half a dozen finnish starlets who are supposed to be quite good, the beckham-giggs hybrid we snapped up from wimbledon( can't remember his name. i think its tim something)
and the potential signings of vincent company(17), arjen robben(19), van der vaart(20), freddy adu(14)
there are also a few english under 21 players including a very young and highly promising goalkeeper called luke steele, and a gun midfielder called eddie johnson.
most of the players you haven't heard of are from the under 19 fa youth cup winning team of last season.
while you may mock the quality of a few of those players, there are so many of them that at least half will prove to be good. even the rejects may turn out to be useful ( eg robbie savage at birmingham, danny higginbottom at southhampton, johnaton greening at boro
my pick for stardom is chris eagles. seems destined to break into the first team soon. of course the likes of ronaldo and robben will overshadow him, but we do like our home grown talent
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Post by Vish on Feb 10, 2004 15:31:43 GMT 10
Thats a nice list of names you got there Gomesh. Get it off Championship Manager? ;D If I told you of of Collingwoods under 25 players will turn out to be a stars, would you buy it too?
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Feb 15, 2004 19:43:38 GMT 10
well you should know most of those players. they have all figured in the man u first team some time this season, even if it is just a league cup match. sbtw cm is usually quite accurate in their predictions. robbie keane, saviola, torres, kaka, tevez, robben just to name a few. those guys were good on cm before they burst onto the scene. of course since i don't seee much south american football, the players may have built up a reputation that i didn't know about. deigo and robinho i did know about before cm came out, so i can't count them.
and i'm not saying that they are all going to be stars. some will, some won't. but the future is bright.
p.s. i have heard good things about the young collingwood players. but then again its just stuff i happen to pick up so i may be confused.
and vish i'm surprised you haven't bagged the shit out of me for man u rather inept performances at the back over the last 2 weeks or so. before you do, notice the fact that saha is in the team and we are playing a 4-4-2 and not a 4-2-3-1 so there is an extra striker and no defensive anchor. also note that half of those eight goals( refering to the 3 premier league games) came about because of long range shots. 4 goals also came form set peices, and we all know that ferdy is very tall, and the rest of the man u defense bad o'shea is very short. hopefully things will work themselves out. either way we need to add some depth in our defensive ranks. we only have 5 specialist defenders including ferdy, with fortune, keane and p.neville able to help out if required.
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Post by Vish on Feb 15, 2004 21:31:35 GMT 10
well you should know most of those players. they have all figured in the man u first team some time this season, even if it is just a league cup match. sbtw cm is usually quite accurate in their predictions. robbie keane, saviola, torres, kaka, tevez, robben just to name a few. those guys were good on cm before they burst onto the scene. of course since i don't seee much south american football, the players may have built up a reputation that i didn't know about. deigo and robinho i did know about before cm came out, so i can't count them. and i'm not saying that they are all going to be stars. some will, some won't. but the future is bright. p.s. i have heard good things about the young collingwood players. but then again its just stuff i happen to pick up so i may be confused. Ditto. and vish i'm surprised you haven't bagged the shit out of me for man u rather inept performances at the back over the last 2 weeks or so. before you do, notice the fact that saha is in the team and we are playing a 4-4-2 and not a 4-2-3-1 so there is an extra striker and no defensive anchor. also note that half of those eight goals( refering to the 3 premier league games) came about because of long range shots. 4 goals also came form set peices, and we all know that ferdy is very tall, and the rest of the man u defense bad o'shea is very short. hopefully things will work themselves out. either way we need to add some depth in our defensive ranks. we only have 5 specialist defenders including ferdy, with fortune, keane and p.neville able to help out if required. Meh! Bagging Man U for inept performances is small fry stuff! I would say that your poor defensive record is more due to compoundind factors rather than one aspect. First of all its the 442 system you are using with only 1 defensive mid (?) compared to the usual 2 you use. That pretty much explains the succesfull long range efforts which reach the back of Howards net. Now only one defensive midfielder is helping break up the attacks on the sort of Half-Back line which means the 1 DCM is doing the job which of 2 players have previously done. Your explanation for the goals conceeded from set peices is spot on. The fact that you have changed from a system which has the perfect balance of defensive options and attacking options to an imbalanced system which would give less defensive support when your 2nd best defender is getting suspended compounds your defensive problems. It's quite simple really. Either change your system back to it was, or take away one winger and add a DCM. Does Fergie have a No.2 yet? Cause he needs one to win the CL. On the plus side, you are going to have some damn entertaining matches whilst with this system and w/o Ferdinand. Just hope is ban doesn't get extended, cause the defenders I you have been linked with don't strike me as ones who would adapt well to the English game. Mexes, Lucio etc. Stam would be perfect for you. BTW, Right now. I would rate the Newcastle defence of Hughes - Woodgate - O'Brien - Bernard higher than a defence of Neville - Silvestre - Brown - O'Shea. But I guess its more about just the 4 at the back when it comes to defending. Anyone who bags Newcastles defence clearly does not know anything about football. And one more thing. What are you making of the American fella? FUCK thats a long post.
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Post by Gonzo Gomo Gomez on Feb 17, 2004 13:36:12 GMT 10
yeah our defense is quite poor. but i don't really see lucio as the answer. mexes perhaps as he has a style similar to that of blanc, and blanc at his best was magnificent to watch. he would just stroll up to the attacker and take the ball away and continue to go forward as if nothing had happened.
but more likely they will go for vincent kompany ( in my opinion one for the future as he's only 17), matteo ferrari ( when he was at inter didn't get too many opportunities so he left. but that was the same with pirlo and look at him now) and/or kevin hofland ( apparently he's back to his best form of 3 years ago) maybe if van byuten does well at city, we may get him, but the problem is any defender coming in, will have to play second string to ferdy and silvestre, which means they have to be versatile enough to play in a number of positions across the back four, and only company has the potential to do that. ferrari and hofland can play at right back and left back respectively, but they will be more like a wide centre back than an true attacking fullback. mexes can only play in the centre.
the problem is that the current situation is temporary, that is till ferdy comes back, and he's be back by the start of next season. most likely we will buy defenders, but they will be young and highly versatile players, and maybe a good replacement for g.neville(unlikely as fergie won't drop him, and we do need the experience at the back)
i hope the old formation returns, cause i like it so much more.
fergie does not have a no 2 and we do need to get one, and glazer the american dude appaerntly is a ruthless son of a bitch. personally i don't want anyone to buy man u unless somehow i get the billion pounds needed to buy the club ;D while spending like abramovich would be fun, we just can't juggle so many players and keep them all happy, unless you lose 5 or 6 players to injury like chelsea have. what i would like to see is replacements to be groomed for scholes, giggs, keane. robben will be the new giggs, rooney will be the new scholes. now all we have to do is go spend 30 million pounds on the two of them. kleberson and liam miller will be our new central midfiled in a few years, unless fergie goes and buys xabi alonso
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